That's The Pete Carroll Bill Simmons Remembers
Bill Simmons has a hilarious column/liveblog/diary/thing posted on ESPN.
Great stuff.
And since everyone is rightly celebrating Vince Young's super performance last night, let's throw out this bit of fun from Simmons:
Let's be honest -- there's no way Vince can succeed in the NFL with that throwing motion. It's impossible. It can't happen. I'm telling you. There has never been a successful NFL quarterback who threw like that. And by "that," I mean, "throws like someone who just realized they have dog poop on their hand and is trying to fling it off."
Ouch.
In any case, he's a pretty darn good college QB.
Posted by Kevin Whited @ 01/05/06 22:11 | Sports | Technorati
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Bill Simmons is increasingly grating on me. Like many northeasterners, he knows less than nothing about CFB, and cares about that much.
Why can he not be successful with that throwing motion? Arm strength is not a problem with him. Sidearm throwers tend to be erratic, but the guy led the nation in passing efficiency this year. He gets the ball where it needs to be. He shows nice touch, too.
Often, sidearm throwers get the ball knocked down, too. Dude is 6'5; odds of him getting lots of balls knocked down is relatively low.
ESPN Radio had Sean Salisbury on last night, and he said the stuff about the throwing motion is basically irrelevant. It is possible --albeit unlikely -- to succeed with such a motion (Bernie Kosar). The real question is whether he can adapt from a spread offense to a pro style offense, not his arm.
(And you know I'm no Texas fan).
Posted by TP @ 10:15 on 01/06/06
Heh, I like Bill Simmons just for the entertainment value.
I think Vince Young is going to have a learning curve for the NFL, but not simply (or even mainly) because of flaws in his mechanics (although I suspect NFL coaches will want to work on those).
He's a man among boys right now in college football, and he can either outrun most of those boys, or flick them off and buy enough time to find an open receiver. I think that advantage is going to be greatly reduced in the NFL. He'll be a very talented man among other talented men in the NFL. I think he's going to find that some of those passes thrown behind "open" receivers who adjust and catch the ball aren't going to be so wildly successful in the NFL. Too much speed and talent all over the field. Those inaccurate throws will be intercepted as often as they result in big plays, I think. I do agree, though, that he has a nice touch; he really knows when to drill the ball, and when to lay it in there.
Going further -- I just don't think Greg Davis's quarterbacks develop much skill at reading defenses. That's fine at UT with their talent -- after all Barry Switzer won a lot of games at OU with the notion that you line up with that wishbone and mostly better athletes than your competition, and you execute a fairly simple offense well. Of course, you're already thinking that a Miami defense with comparable athletes blew up that wishbone and (I think) hastened its decline -- and I think that helps make the point. Vince Young is a spectacular talent, but NFL defenses aren't going to be outclassed by him. He's going to have to learn to read defenses, which may take some time.
I think of Chris Simms, who finally seems to be emerging some after the tutelage of Jon Gruden. How much faster might he have developed if he had gone to a place with a more pro-oriented attack (or at least with a more sophisticated passing game)?
I've seen a lot of the sentiment that the Texans should dump David Carr and go all out to get Vince Young whenever he comes out. I'm curious about your thoughts on that, because I'm not crazy about it. I still think Carr can be a serviceable NFL quarterback, given the right coaching and people around him. I also think that Vince Young is several years from being that serviceable NFL QB, even though he's the most spectacular college football player going right now.
Posted by Kevin @ 10:36 on 01/06/06
You make many good points here, most of which I agree with. While he has been very accurate in CFB, I agree completely that the holes he will have to throw through in college will be both smaller and open for much shorter time.
I do think he has shown enough of an ability to be accurate to justify some belief that with proper tutelage, he can get where he needs to be (contrast Vick, who has never, in college or otherwise, displayed much accuracy).
I also think Greg Davis sucks just as much as he did when they were losing all those big games for so many years. Guy didn't just wake up and become a genius. When you have Vince Young at QB, two 1st round draft picks on offensive line (and another early round pick), an NFL TE, solid WRs and quality depth at RB, it's not too difficult to play offense.
Exhibit A is coker. We looked plenty good on offense in 2000-2002, when we had a cerebral, excellent college QB in Dorsey, and talent like Shockey, Winslow, Dre, McGahee, Portis, Moss, Wayne, McKinnie, Davenport, etc. Take those players away, and lo and behold, Clappy can't coach too much. Same is true of Davis. He's still a terrible QB coach and a subpar OC, IMO.
And I agree with you on Simms, to a point. I still do not think he will ever be a truly good NFL QB -- he still locks onto WRs and makes poor decisions too often. But he as progressed much farther than I ever thought he would, certainly.
I wouldn't dump Carr for Young. Carr is further along in his development. Texans cannot afford several 3-13 2-12 seasons after this last debacle, and Carr is ready to play QB much more so than VY.
Carr can be good enough, I think. Hard to know, since he's never had much of an OL.
Real question is Reggie Bush: as amazing as he is, guy looks to bounce EVERYTHING outside. you can't do that and be successful in the NFL. Not saying he won't be great, because he will be, but the real question is, how great? Are we talking Marshall Faulk or Dave Meggett?
Posted by TP @ 10:55 on 01/06/06
I think you're probably right. I admittedly don't follow the Texans all that closely (die-hard Cowboys fan since Don Meredith was the QB), but from what I've seen, I think David Carr is at least serviceable, and maybe better than that; it's hard to tell about talent from the prone position. They should either take Reggie Bush or trade the pick for a ton of other high picks and get some decent o-linemen.
Reggie Bush has kind of been relegated to the position Vince was after the Texas A&M game. All anyone can remember is the Rose Bowl, and everything else is forgotten. Just another reminder of the gnat-like attention span and memory of the majority of the media.
Speaking of which, you're also right (boy, I hate to keep saying that;)) about Greg Davis. He's getting credit he doesn't deserve this year, simply because he has Vince Young as his QB. I've always questioned his play-calling ability, and I think a lot of the success of this year's team has been Vince's improvisation after the called play has been blown up. I don't think Vince's learning curve will be as long as Chris Simms'; he already reads defenses better, and much more importantly, makes better decisions and is cooler under pressure than maybe anyone I've ever seen in college.
Posted by another precinct chair @ 11:10 on 01/06/06
APC: So if Vince comes out, should our Cowboys try to trade up for him, and hope for two years out of Bledsoe while Vince learns the pro game?
Posted by Kevin @ 11:13 on 01/06/06
They should, but I don't see it happening. Under Jerry Jones, they seem to prefer trading down for more picks, rather than up for the blockbuster player. Also, I'm not sure if Bledsoe is the right QB to tutor Vince. Maybe some kind of deal with the Titans to get his buddy Steve McNair in Dallas for a year or so?
Posted by another precinct chair @ 12:42 on 01/06/06
All good comments. I will add that Vince is a MUCH better passer (accuracy, touch, decision-making, etc.) than a few years ago and there is no reason to think that he will not continue to improve in the NFL, although word around the state capitol lunchroom is that he has already decided to come back to UT. Comparisons with Vick are appropriate, but I think Randall Cunningham when I picture Vince in the NFL. Vick tucks it away and commits to the run, while Randall (and Vince) look to pass until the very last moment. Vince moves well in the pocket, too (like Randall did). In the Rose Bowl, it was great to see him always looking downfield, from sideline to sideline while staying just a step ahead of the rush.
Posted by el_longhorn @ 15:00 on 01/06/06
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