It's Hard To Argue The Point
US general sees significant withdrawal in Iraq (Peter Spiegel & Demetri Sevastopulo, FT, via Brothers Judd)
The US is expected to pull significant numbers of troops out of Iraq in the next 12 months in spite of the continuing violence, according to the general responsible for near-term planning in the country.
Maj Gen Douglas Lute, director of operations at US Central Command, yesterday said the reductions were part of a push by Gen John Abizaid, commander of all US troops in the region, to put the burden of defending Iraq on Iraqi forces.
[snip]
“You have to undercut the perception of occupation in Iraq. It's very difficult to do that when you have 150,000-plus, largely western, foreign troops occupying the country.”
It's hard to argue with the general.
As friend Orrin Judd has contended for a long time, one mistake we've made is not pushing Iraqis along faster towards popular sovereignty, even if co-Presidents McCain and Hagel don't see it that way.
Posted by Kevin Whited @ 08/25/05 11:00 | International | Technorati
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Or we could go the other way and show them what an occupation by 150,000 really looks like. Then their perception (of what it WAS) might be different.
This is a silly argument, I'm afraid. And it has naught to do with pushing the Iraqis out of the nest.
Posted by Scott Chaffin @ 00:53 on 08/26/05
The idea that Iraqis need years of training to act as police or soldiers is silly. They might need years of trainign to act as politically correct police, but the great thing is it's their country and their countrymen aren't American liberals. If we had less visible presence, the Iraqis themselves would be free to take the gloves off and deal with the foreign bastards that are blowing up their hospitals and elementary schools.
Posted by Tom Hanna @ 06:44 on 08/26/05
Scott: I'm not sure what argument you're calling silly?
I'm not calling the occupation immoral. But it is an occupation, and we are horrible occupiers (it kind of goes against our national creed). Razing the country won't make us "better" occupiers. Letting the Iraqis take control of their own country seems preferable. I think our timetables have been very slow in that regard.
Tom: You beat me to the reply. I agree with your last sentence, but I would only add that letting them take the gloves off and deal with some domestic bastards (Baathists, pro-Saddam elements, some Islamists) also would be a plus.
Posted by Kevin @ 07:44 on 08/26/05
Following up on Tom's point, note the headline in this piece:
http://www.washingtonpost.c...
Be NICE to the Sunnis, the American way.
Yeah, right, and Drive Friendly The Texas Way too!
Come on. If the Sunnis are willing to agree to a Constitution that protects their basic rights while allowing a majority (yeah, Shiites) to run the country, great. If they won't come to the table on the Constitution, my guess is that their rights are going to be somewhat precarious in Shiite Iraq -- and there will come a day when the American people aren't going to tolerate more troops being killed because the Sunnis we threw out of power in the first place won't endorse a constitution, and there IS a Shiite Iraq.
It's really up to the Sunnis how they will be treated in the coming Iraq.
Posted by Kevin @ 08:40 on 08/26/05
The "perception of occupation" argument is a silly thing to hang your hat on. In fact, foreign occupation is what the insurgents are using as an excuse to blow up those hospitals and schools.
There's no argument from me with what you two are saying about the Iraqis taking charge of their own future, and doing it ASAP. I don't think, though, that two years is enough time to train an army and a police force up to the way *WE* want and need them to be in a democratic society.
Now, do we need 150,000 troops to do that? Probably not, but I'll leave it to the experts. Whatever the number is, it does us no good to feed the "perception of occupation."
Posted by Scott Chaffin @ 09:28 on 08/26/05
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