Local Thuggery
A few weeks ago, members of the New Black Panther party alarmed some folks when they went out as election poll watchers at various locations in Houston. I don't have any problem with that, as I've done the poll watching gig in a dicey part of town before, and as long as the rules are obeyed and the election judge keeps good control of things, that's anyone's right under Texas election law.
However, apparently participating in the normal political process is not nearly as much fun as disrupting a council meeting and instigating a brawl:
A normal city council meeting got way out of control Tuesday afternoon. Shouting and shoving erupted and eventually one man was temporarily detained and another sent to the hospital.Some notes on the bolded items:Tuesday afternoons at city council are reserved for the public to speak out about issues they care about in front of elected officials. That's how it all started. Members of the New Black Panther party wanted to bring up the issue of reparations. Things went downhill very fast.
It was an altercation rarely seen inside city hall -- Kofi Taharka dragged out by police after refusing to leave the speakers' podium.
The screaming that began inside city council chambers soon moved into the hallways, as Taharka and other members of the New Black Panther party shoved and shouted with police officers. The afternoon began calmly enough as a group of activists asked the mayor to put the issue of reparations on the council agenda.
"I'm not going to leave the podium until we get a date," insisted Taharka. "If that means I go to jail today, then I'm down with that."
Mayor Bill White promised, "Whoever it is, and whatever the cause, we're not going to set a precedent that citizens come up here and say they won't leave unless we do x, y, z."
Mayor White tried his best to maintain order. But soon, accusations began flying toward the police officers.
One woman yelled, "Why you ain't got the white boys up in here taking them away? This is modern day slavery."
"Our officers wear the blue Houston Police Department uniform, they're very professional," said Chief Harold Hurtt. "All of our officers can respond to any incident within the city of Houston."
But despite the best efforts the scene got out of control. A man involved in the reparation debate said he was hurt by the commotion and was soon carted off by medical technicians, leaving even veteran elected officials surprised.
"It's not usually the way we conduct the public session, but hopefully we'll be able to move on from here," said Houston City Councilmember Carol Alvarado.
Things got back to normal for the rest of the afternoon. The man arrested by police was released a short while later, and no charges will be filed. The man who was hurt is in very good condition at a local hospital, and awaiting x-rays.
Mayor Bill White says he wants council members to discuss the reparation issue but set no specific dates.
1) It's not modern day slavery. That woman is a fool.
2) This was not a "reparation debate" but a brawl.
3) The man arrested by police should not have been released without charges being filed against him.
4) The city has no business taking up the "reparation issue" when it has so many problems that actually need addressing (from the pension funds to the Danger Train to the Flood Tax to budget woes to the crime lab to... well, you get the idea).
Posted by Kevin Whited @ 03/30/04 20:59 | Houston | Technorati
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My initial thoughts when I saw the teaser ads around 9pm ....
1) I hope no eggs were involved in this one.
2) Tell me Carol Alvarado is ok.
Needless to say, I was rather relieved at the results ... and even amused by the modern day slavery charge.
Posted by Greg Wythe @ 13:06 on 03/31/04
amused by the modern day slavery charge, eh? I'm sure slavery itself is amusing to you too.
the above article is a typical white racist slant on events I actually witnessed first hand. you have little knowledge about fighting for what you believe in this society because you have what you want: white dominance
Posted by yo mandude @ 18:59 on 04/06/04
Frankly, the "modern-day" slavery charge is an affront to those who were enslaved, to civil rights leaders, and to all us Americans who embrace Martin Luther King's vision of a color-free America.
It's not a "white racist view" to ask that the rules regarding council meetings be obeyed. That scene could have gotten much uglier, and people could have been injured, all because certain thugs disobeyed council proceedings.
Want reparations? Fine. Let's have that political debate.
Want to start a brawl at city council? Then I hope next time the city DOES press charges.
Greg Wythe is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I'm fairly certain he's not amused by slavery. Neither am I.
Posted by Kevin @ 19:10 on 04/06/04
your mischaracterization of the events shows your racist backbone.
again I was about 4 feet from the doorway where the officers escorted Kofi and Quanell out the room. It is obvious by your writing that you are relying upon the only 2 camera shots that made the regular news media and that you were unable to see from the media channel (trust me I checked it when I got home that night).
Bottom line there was no brawl and you are spinning a lie now if you continue.
You can disagree with Kofi's method and you can decide for yourself that he deserved to be arrested for refusing to leave the podium, but in doing so you are ignoring that he said it would happen that way because he was there to take a stand.
You don't have the same issue at stake and so its easy for you to just mock and ridicule the desire for reparations (the action of reparing). In doing so you ignore that there is no consensus among the black community about what form this will take.
This is why activists are calling for an exploration of the issue. Who knows what that will produce, but if you say you support the debate, then you are on the same side as many of the activists I interviewed last tuesday. they want the debate to hit the table and they've been asking for this discussion for a long time.
It is appropriate to confront what happened in America to the Africans who were enslaved in chattle slavery and the racism that continues towards immigrants to this day.
Not doing so will undo America.
It is not inline with my faith in Christs example of respect for others and hearing the grievance of my brothers and sisters in the world.
I don't know what you think Reparations really means but your writing is not in touch with what is being talked about in the discussions held in the Black community about Reparations.
So you are either not interested, not capable of understanding it, never exposed, or just bigotted all together.
Its easy to guess that you won't see it and will in a natural pavlovian defense get angered or annoyed with someone else telling you that you are a bigot, but as a person who disagrees with many portions and/or directions of the Reparations, I can tell you are ignorant of both the issues, and the people involved.
I'll make you a deal if you are brave enough to spout your mind in debate....
I'll contact some people who do radio and see if they will accomodate you in a debate with Kofi. Then we can get the best of these opposing views.
Whatcha say Kevin? Up to it?
Just say so and I'll get you in touch with some people who can make it happen for ya.
Posted by ya mandude @ 03:53 on 04/07/04
Ya Mandude:
You don't know me, and I don't know you. Does it really help us to get to know one another if you constantly call me a racist and bigoted for weblog commentary with with you disagree?
I don't think it does.
On the matter of facts -- you make judgments in your last comment about MY view on reparations. On what basis? The ONLY thing I've said about reparations specifically in this post is that I think the city has more pressing business, and that I don't think this is a matter for council to take up. If folks disagree and bring the topic up for debate in council following the existing rules and laws governing such political debate, then I won't call those folks names. I would ask for the same courtesy. However, when media reports discuss pushing and shoving with police officers, what am I supposed to call it? I make no judgments about Taharka's intent, but that's what was reported.
I am a conservative Republican and I'm not ashamed of that. But before you go and label me a racist and a bigot, maybe you should at least have some idea what I think about reparations -- or don't. Maybe you should know that I don't disagree with your assertion above that the legacy of slavery and then racism in America has hurt blacks, that the hurt is enduring, and that our society does have some obligation to try and solve that enduring problem. I don't know that reparations is the right approach (and from what you say, the black community is undecided). I'm inclined to think writing a check for $30,000 and being done with the matter is probably a less effective solution than measures like boosting schools (through vouchers) and boosting neighborhoods (through enterprise zones) and boosting home ownership (those who own neighborhoods exert positive influence over them).
What else can be done?
I don't know.
You make me an offer to go take the No Reparations side in some debate. That would be an unfair caricature of my position. I'm not really an oral debater, but I'd be happy to contribute some thoughts on the topic to a print medium.
Better than that, though, I think I'd rather sit down and have a cup of coffee or a beer or something with you and have a real discussion about some of these issues. If we can get past calling each other names -- and I think we can -- we might find more common ground than you expect.
What do you say?
My email is kevin@publiustx.net. If I don't hear from you, I'll email the address you've used here.
Posted by Kevin @ 08:12 on 04/07/04
Kevin,
Your post starts with referring to Kofi as a Thug.
As per your criteria of judgment, have you ever met Kofi? Do you know Kofi?
Then how can you call him a thug?
Also were you there or did you read it via the "local media"?
If you weren't there, then why did you write that they were inciting a brawl?
Then you called a woman you never met a fool for comparing what is happening in the council room to modern slavery.
What you miss in your lily whiteness is what she's pointing to about house slaves being used to calm field slaves.
Her metaphor is drawn on the fact that black officers were being used to remove Kofi. This is much as it was done with house slaves dealing with, in fact being forced sometimes to discipline, working field slaves.
In other words, using people against their own so to keep the hands clean.
But in your whiteness you miss this because you don't have a connection to this reality.
Then you state that this wasn't a "Reparation Debate".
Prove this. Tell me what happened before the cameras shot Kofi being pushed by officers....then tell me what continued after he left and the cameras left.
I was there. I know what happened. What happened with Kofi was just ONE PART of what occured last tuesday. But it was the only part you paid attention to.
This is the source of me pointing out your bigotry. You lost out on all the argument, then launched to your blog to add to it while coming from a place of ignorance.
This is a typical reinforcement of the white racist ignorance that I'm calling you on.
I don't give a shit if you are a Republican, Democrat or other. That's your business. But you called an activist, Kofi Taharka, a thug. I invite you to tell that to Kofi when you debate on the issue.
Then you went on to say that Kofi should have gone to jail and had charges pushed upon him. (for stating his case)
This is yet another example of your lily white priveledge showing that you could care less what happens to Black people.
"Just be quiet black people you are distrubing my country music. You should be ashamed of yourself acting all mad about what you think white people did you. You should just pick yourselves up like I think I did and make something out of yourself. I know you are treated fairly and racism ended in the 60s" Kevin might as well have blared.
But you are a liar if you state that you didn't tell me where you stood on Reparation. You clearly stated, "The city has no business taking up the "reparation issue".
You think that it is unimportant compared to the pension problems.
A real man would say, "I'm interested in seeing what would repair the relations between the black community and the white community. I don't know if money is the answer, or where to begin, and therefore I'm for hearing ideas and plans to do so.
I do however hope the city won't lose site of the day to day important issues like flooding and traffic."
less of course you don't give a shit, which is fairly clear by your initial post.
As a conservative...what are you wanting to conserve? The legacy of America is bloody and filled with shame. If I were you, I'd rethink that title a bit and realize that changes in direction are necessary.
Otherwise we are just going to have the same ol rift and inequity that creates more violence, more destruction, and in the end, costs much more money.
As a conservative, who probably claims to want a smaller efficient government, you should have studied the relation between peaceful relations between communities and the financial needs to support conflict.
I look forward to the gleeming whiteness of your response, but seriously I expect very little other than defending of your white roots.
Posted by ya mandude @ 16:34 on 04/07/04
Ya Mandude, I tried to reach out to you and have a conversation.
You don't seem interested in having a conversation, however. You seem more interested in calling me names, and you're obviously invested in a view of the world that makes anyone who disagrees with you a racist. At this point, I wonder if you're even real, or just someone trying to get a rise out of me. It's not going to work.
Whatever the case, I wish you well, friend. If you'd like to have that cup of coffee or a beer sometime and think you can manage a civil conversation with a "white racist" you have my email address.
I do stand by everything I've written here. Thanks for adding your dissent.
Posted by Kevin @ 17:05 on 04/07/04
"you're obviously invested in a view of the world that makes anyone who disagrees with you a racist"
This simplification of the argument undermines your "reach out".
I'm telling you that your writing indicates at the least a racial ignorance of the issue and more importantly the players and events of Tuesday, March 30 at city hall.
If you wish to be seen as a fair and objective thinker on this, why not comment on the various areas I answered to you?
You asked why I would consider your writing racist and I gave you examples. You didn't respond to the examples, instead you throw up your hands with an "I Tried" commentary.
Why not look at what was written regarding your use of: "Thug" "Brawl" "Fool" and other bits I already commented on, then talk about reaching out or conversation.
And I'm no figment of your imagination, nor am I trolling for a fight with you.
So, either answer or be seen as a typical blogger. Your resume seems to indicate someone who believe in an educated opinion and I gave you answers that you don't respond to.
I stand behind everything I wrote to you too and I thank you for hearing the dissent.
Posted by ya mandude @ 17:58 on 04/07/04
Ya Mandude,
The reason I didn't address your points is because they are a series of questionable assertions punctuated by the accusation that I'm a white racist. I think a fair reader not invested in such a worldview can see that. But fine, here are those points:
>>Your post starts with referring to Kofi as a Thug.<<
The title of the post is local thuggery. There is not a single sentence referring to Kofi specifically as a thug. However, I am referring to the pushing and shoving with cops as thuggery, yes. You disagree and call me a racist. End of conversation.
>>If you weren't there, then why did you write that they were inciting a brawl?<<
The pushing and shoving with cops that injured a man (which I characterize as a brawl from news reports) was an outcome of their actions. If the news coverage is mistaken, you have a beef with them, not me. Yet I'm a racist? End of conversation.
>>Then you called a woman you never met a fool for comparing what is happening in the council room to modern slavery.
What you miss in your lily whiteness is what she's pointing to about house slaves being used to calm field slaves.<<
No, I didn't "miss" that. I actually count that as an example of the woman being a fool. I think she's self-evidently wrong. That's my opinion. Your response is to call me a racist. End of conversation.
>>Then you state that this wasn't a "Reparation Debate".
Prove this. Tell me what happened before the cameras shot Kofi being pushed by officers....then tell me what continued after he left and the cameras left.<<
THIS -- what I wrote about -- wasn't a reparation debate, it was a circus according to media reports! THIS is what I was writing about! THIS did the pro-reparation people no favors in getting their real issues out!
You concede all of those things, then call me a racist for not writing about those other things (which I was not present for and could have no way of knowing, because the other activities completely drowned those out). End of conversation.
>>Then you went on to say that Kofi should have gone to jail and had charges pushed upon him. (for stating his case)
This is yet another example of your lily white priveledge showing that you could care less what happens to Black people.<<
I never said the man shouldn't state his case. I said (based on news reports -- if they're false, your beef is with them) he violated council rules by refusing to leave after the allotted time, was removed, and chaos was produced. If we are going to have rules regarding public comment, then yes, I think people who violate them should be cited. I assume public disturbance usually results in a ticket. You disagree, and accuse me of racism. End of conversation.
>>"Just be quiet black people you are distrubing my country music. You should be ashamed of yourself acting all mad about what you think white people did you. You should just pick yourselves up like I think I did and make something out of yourself. I know you are treated fairly and racism ended in the 60s" Kevin might as well have blared.<<
Except Kevin didn't blare that and Kevin doesn't think that. Now you're resorting to making up things I haven't said in order to call me a racist. End of conversation.
>>But you are a liar if you state that you didn't tell me where you stood on Reparation. You clearly stated, "The city has no business taking up the "reparation issue".<<
That's not lying, friend. Where I stand on reparations in general is a different issue from where I stand on normal city council time being devoted to what is, in my view, a federal issue. You feel the distinction I make is irrelevant, and call me a name (a liar). End of conversation.
>>I look forward to the gleeming whiteness of your response, but seriously I expect very little other than defending of your white roots.<<
This -- and all of the examples above -- are what I mean when I say you're really invested in the view that anyone who may disagree with you (and is white) is a racist. Honestly, when you preface your part of a conversation with a statement like that, do you really believe it is conducive to furthering the conversation?
I can understand if you just wanted to come on here and denounce that original weblog post. Fine. That's why I have comments.
But couldn't we do ourselves some good if we could go beyond the namecalling you don't like in my original post and the namecalling I don't like in your responses, and actually talk to each other? As I've made clear, I'm up for a cup of coffee and a chat.
[Part one -- to be continued]
Posted by Kevin @ 09:15 on 04/08/04
[Part Two -- continued]
>> A real man would say, "I'm interested in seeing what would repair the relations between the black community and the white community. I don't know if money is the answer, or where to begin, and therefore I'm for hearing ideas and plans to do so.
I do however hope the city won't lose site of the day to day important issues like flooding and traffic."<<
Fair enough. How about you say that? If you want to write a weblog post to that effect rather than just calling me a racist, I'll post it.
Or I'll just ask here if you prefer -- how do you think the city should proceed? Should the mayor create a high profile committee to discuss race relations in the city and report back to council? Should council just vote on whether to endorse a federal reparations payment and be done with the issue? What would YOU have the city do?
Posted by Kevin @ 09:16 on 04/08/04
First Kevin,
My response to your article was because I was doing a cross section of titles related to Kofi's arrest. What I found as the header for each tells me volumes about the authors.
Your header and ABC13 ranked as the most inflamatory and when I further read your comments, as I have already commented on, you come off as a very bigotted towards people I actually know.
In saying that I know them, I should also qualify that I don't have a friendship level connection, only in that I've covered many issues related to issues that Kofi Taharka and many other activists stay involved in.
In comes a guy who prides himself on political and military knowledge with his blog calling this guy, Thug.
This is a high insult against the political action taken by Taharka, whether you agree with his politics or not. You have reduced his invested interest to simply being a thug.
Then when you hear that a woman compared Black officers being employed to remove Black activists to the same match up between the house slaves and the field slaves, you tell me volumes about your race consciousness.
As some might see it as simply something you could stand to be exposed to instead of going so far as to call you a racist, I make note that you were so propelled to write about something:
1. You didn't see
2. You borrowed from an already racially inciteful article from ABC13
3. You know little about
4. You oppose.
Opposing something you haven't investigated is ignorant. Not only is this ignorance resulting in the impedance of the concerns of others but you went a step further, you took to the web to spout about something you hadn't really though about or to write about people second hand.
This is traditional to you? This is what a conservative is about? Gossip? Writing about people he sees on ABC?
Instead of asking me to write a weblog post to that effect, why not acknowledge your ignorance in this post and recognize that your post at least appears to be racially motivated.
Why would I call it Racially Motivated?
Because "white thuggery" occurs daily and is found on TV quite a bit. Where's your post on that? Where is your article on Beau John Maloney?
doesn't fit your agenda to reinforce white power in the region and america. now, don't jump to some high defense at this, you might not see it. so allow me to ask you to consider what I'm writing to you and ask that you respond to the points I bring about your post.
you're right I should be able to just talk to you even if we disagree about reparations. you're right that it is uncomfortable to be called a racist and that this doesn't help in having a debate.
but does calling Kofi Taharka a thug, without having witnessed the events through much more than a Channel13 Tv Camera shot help the debate either?
What about calling a woman a fool when she is speaking from almost 76 years of personal experience as a black woman in the South?
She is angry, and she has many years to draw on in this pain. She is also very accurate in portraying what was happening in that room on that day.
Perhaps you didn't understand her metaphor.
and since it hasn't been your habit to answer to my specific posts and only to the style you see in the writing, I have to ask you to reread what you wrote and consider the points I bring you.
until then, ja mandude
Posted by ja mandude @ 00:47 on 04/09/04
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